MyDD :: Live Thread IV at the RBC

Live Thread IV at the RBC

by Jerome Armstrong, Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:56:31 PM EST

First, regarding the Florida challenge. Huffman motions for full voting, the Clinton supporters erupt in cheers. It's seconded by Flourney:"This has no chance to pass in this body."

Germond is getting quite a bit of flack, Pasquil is much better.

Update [2008-5-31 18:56:31 by Jerome Armstrong]: Here's the vote now: 12 votes in favor, 15 opposed. The crowd erupts with chants, the Clinton supporters, saying "Denver". Those voting yes were Reiley, Smith, Steed, D. Fowler, Kamarck, Huffman, Ickes, Flourney(2), Brewer, Pasquil, Kleinfeld.

"You just took away votes" from the crowd.

Alic Huffman is taking a good lead here at getting to a resolution.

The vote to restore the delegates, at 1/2th, not granting the SD's a full vote. Obama gets what he wants in Florida. The vote is unanimous.

Update [2008-5-31 18:56:31 by Jerome Armstrong]: Onto the Michigan challenge. Reiley moves to restoring half delegates for Clinton, at 34.5, and for Obama at 29.5. This appears to have been the compromise. It's essentially the MDP's postion, which has no basis whatsoever in the rules, and then cutting it in half.

Ickes: "This motion will hijack, remove 4 delegates of Hillary Clinton. .. this body of 30 indivuduals is goingn to substitute their judgment for 600,000 voters. ... I am stunned that we have the gall and chutzpa to substitute our judgement for 600,000 voters." This is an act to "overturn the election."

Funny moment, the camera inside the hall panned over Brazile who was rolling her eyes-- classy woman there.

Ickes: "Hijacking 4 delegates is not a good way to start down the path of party unity." Clinton has instructed Ickes that this is going to the credentials committee.

Update [2008-5-31 19:13:2 by Jerome Armstrong]: Hynes congratulates Obama for his leadership. "This is a fair result." Ward says its not a hijack, but presents the opportunity for FL and MI to participate, says Ickes has "selective amnesia". Then: "No more political posturing that suggests this isn't over."

Update [2008-5-31 19:13:2 by Jerome Armstrong]: Those voting yes are 19 and 8 vote no-- Smith, Huffman, Klenfield, Pasquil, Flournoy (2), Ickes, Shay.

Lots of pissed off people exiting the room shouting "Denver".

Fowler makes a motion to thank Roosevelt & Herman. Everyone remaining claps, its over.

Tags: election 2008 (all tags)

Permalink :: 379 Comments :: Post a Comment

First (none / 0)

"McSame: He's Constipated and Ready to GO!

by Al Rodgers on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:25:11 PM EST

HRC: (2.00 / 3)

"This is a race to 2025 delegates."

"This contest they're having [in Michigan] isn't going to count for anything."

John McCain: He flunked ECON 101.

by Shem on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:26:52 PM EST

Montana doesn't count (none / 0)

It is clear that Montana and South Dakota will not count for anything.

I would like to point out that just by me making that statement doesn't make it the case. Hillary Clinton does not decide what counts and what doesn't count. She didn't have the power at that time to make Michigan count and she didn't have the power to make Michigan void. That statement is meaningless

Voices in the Wilderness

by Wiseprince on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:19:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Legally, you may be correct. (2.00 / 1)

However, if she tries to make a moral argument that they counted (which is what she is doing). That statement completely disproves her argument.

Check out McCain.

by you like it on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:33:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I don't think it is just Clinton voters (none / 0)

applauded. I think

by puma on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:27:22 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 3)

In Soviet Russia, candidate chooses you!

by Brannon on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:28:06 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

Thank you, Fearless Leader.

McCain

by Black Anus on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:28:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 4)

No mention the Clinton supporters got slammed for disrupting the meeting?

Not that I care about who was disrupting it; if Obama supporters did it, I'd be just as pissed. But I don't understand- I thought Obama supporters were the obnoxious ones, but the Clinton supporters are the only ones screaming, yelling, hollering, cozying up to Larry Sinclair.

Christ, I already know most Clinton supporters don't act or feel this way, why the hell are these people the ones representing their candidate?

Hooray for John McCain!

by ragekage on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:28:54 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 4)

The way that the crowd is responding is really getting to me. This is a meeting, not a Lakers game.

by auronrenouille on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:30:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 3)

No kidding; you'd think they had beer hats and foam #1 hands and fat guys with painted bellies.

Next time, we should just have a race at Bristol Motor Speedway, and whoever doesn't crash gets to decided the outcome.

Hooray for John McCain!

by ragekage on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:34:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

that is what politics have become... (2.00 / 1)

...for many people any more.

You cheer your team now matter how much they suck or how far behind they are.

I can't believe it was even TELEVISED!

by DawnG on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:15:54 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 5)

I don't like the idea of the candidates or supporters participating in the process at all. Sets a bad precedent that if you're losing by the rules, you just change the rules.

by Brannon on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:31:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 3)

Exactly right.

Hooray for John McCain!

by ragekage on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:32:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Terrible. (2.00 / 2)

It is a travesty that someone like Ickes gets to sit on the RBC given his position with the Clinton Campaign. Talk about a conflict of interest.

What a disgrace!

Check out McCain.

by you like it on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:31:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They follow the likes of Ickles (2.00 / 2)

I'm so glad Hillary had Mr. Potty-Mouth as her spokeswoman.

Such eloquence from this distinguished leader. All those hells and damns sure illustrated how all the 90-year-old women spent their entire lives waiting for Hillary to save them.

Such class from Camp Clinton.

Thank you, Senator Obama, for remaining respectful of your party. Thank you for encouraging your supporters to have decorum, as they did.

Even though, we know you will be blamed in some giant picked-on-ME plot.

by Eman on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:21:52 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They follow the likes of Ickles (none / 0)

Yeah, right. Ward all but had spit frothing at his mouth.

Thanks, Obama, for bringing us here.

On to Denver, baby.

by dembluestates on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:31:58 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They follow the likes of Ickles (2.00 / 2)

I watched the entire thing and didn't see anyone go over the top except for Mr. Ickes....that was not empassioned, that was wacked out nuts. "On to Denver, Baby"?? Why? Even if Clinton screws up this election cycle, she doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of doing better in 2012. Maybe you all should cut your losses.

by WAAngel on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:37:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Ickles - the Potty-Mouth (none / 0)

I'm really glad she made ole Potty-Mouth Ickeys her official statewoman.

As he demonstrated his eloquent fourth-grade vocabulary and spewed his hells and damns to national television, while reminding us he spoke with full authority of Hillary, he truly further defined the class (or lack thereof) of the entire Clinton campaign.

It was so refreshing to hear Ickeys assert he was speaking for her.

The boos, hisses, and childish school-yard chants, from one side only, further demonstrated their level of class. Funny that all the "thousands" of protesters were alegedly from Florida, but made their stink about Michigan.

Also funny that the Florida decision was UNANIMOUS.

Yes, it is on to Denver.

by Eman on Sat May 31, 2008 at 08:05:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: They follow the likes of Ickles (2.00 / 1)

I am sad for the millions of Clinton supporters who don't act like that. Ickes' tackiness and the crowd's rowdy behavior do discredit to their candidate and to all of her dignified, and probably already wounded supporters, who would not stoop to do what these few did in their name.

by Christy1947 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:59:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I, too am saddened for my friends in that position (none / 0)

I have friends who had strongly supported Senator Clinton for ideological reasons. They have had a very rough time with this.

They saw and heard Senator Clinton encouraging the childish behavior we saw at that meeting, wanting a demonstration, equating the rule-breaking with the freeing of slaves (hmmm, again?).

They saw and heard Senator Obama ask his supporters to react with logic and not emotion.

But Potty-Mouth Harold and his assinine sermonette on national television???

"If that were my church, I would have left that church."

by Eman on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 09:29:01 AM EST
[ Parent ]

mob appreciation (none / 0)

Well, their behavior probably didn't help their case. Obama ought to send the mob a thank you card.

by mikeinsf on Sat May 31, 2008 at 08:44:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

The only reason Obama people weren't being the jerks they really are, is because their Hive leader told them to be nice, and like nice little Hive mates, they obeyed.

by muggle on Sat May 31, 2008 at 10:45:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 4)

Why Ickes would be allowed to continue to play a part in this is beyond me.

Users who are excessively bashing the Democratic Party, or being Republican trolls, will be banned.

by Massadonious on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:29:32 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

He is representing Hillary.

See you in Denver!

Voices in the Wilderness

by Wiseprince on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:20:25 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

I wouldn't let him represent dog turd. Hillary is doing herself a grave disservice by continuing to let him ride her coattails.

Users who are excessively bashing the Democratic Party, or being Republican trolls, will be banned.

by Massadonious on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:22:03 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

And thank you for your concern. I'm sure you have Hillary's best interests at heart.

by dembluestates on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:33:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

You're right, she should continue to employ someone who voted to disenfranchise both states in the first place, and is now fighting to reinstate them.

Yeah, don't listen to me. You keep going on Hillary!

Users who are excessively bashing the Democratic Party, or being Republican trolls, will be banned.

by Massadonious on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:35:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 6)

Nobody needs to be cheering and hooting during this meeting.

This reminds me of the people who can't not make a spectacle at high school graduations, despite being told not to.

Nothing like missing hearing your kids' name called because the jerk parents of the kid before him had an air horn.

by KyleJRM on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:30:29 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 1)

I know the feeling--one way to make yourself feel better is to keep in mind that the airhorn crowd typically won't make it to your kid's college graduation.

by Brannon on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:32:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 2)

From the looks of it, I wouldn't be surprised to see someone produce an airhorn in this crowd.

by Brannon on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:41:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 3)

Clintonites continue to clap ignoring A.Herman's polite request for them not to do so....telling. What will be more telling is if they boo when they actually vote to cut the FL delegations in 1/2.

by JustJack on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:32:45 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 2)

yup, now they were heckling the woman(not sure of her name) who was extolling the importance of rules. Then clapping again when the next woman talks about going against the rules.

by JustJack on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:36:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

Sounds like the deal is 1/2 in FL.

Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.

by mistersite on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:33:56 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 1)

Would it be too much to ask that just one of these idiots acknowledge that this is their fault, and why they have changed their minds (if for some other reason that they are now attached to a campaign)?

This is almost like the MPAA - every single decisionmaker is acting for their own best interests, with no thought to consistency.

by rfahey22 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:34:00 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 2)

Even if you must clap, the "woooooo" just makes you sound like a doofus.

by KyleJRM on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:36:34 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 3)

The booing is completely childish. Yee gods.

by skohayes on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:37:35 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

100% in FL didn't even crack 50% of the committee.

Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.

by mistersite on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:37:41 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 2)

Chanting?

They need to call security and kick these people out. This is embarassing for all involved.

by KyleJRM on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:37:59 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 2)

You are right. Is Jerome gonna say how disrespectful his fellow Hillary supporters were?

John McCain: Bush right to veto kids health insurance expansion

by Calvin Jones and the 13th Apostle on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:44:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 2)

Booing "nay" votes? How much less classy can you get?

I heard no booing of the "yea" votes.

Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.

by mistersite on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:38:15 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 2)

THis is a bloody circus. What are they going to do next, riot?

by auronrenouille on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:38:22 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

Yeah, they're going to burn their Botox.

"In the primary you should vote with your heart, but in the general, you should vote with your head" Hillary's husband

by venician on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:40:27 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 4)

"denver denver denver"- wow. Someone's supporters are making an ASS of themselves. Classy.

John McCain wants to stay in Iraq.

by ihaveseenenough on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:38:29 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 1)

Is that what they were saying? I thought it was "Stand firm!!".
Yours makes more sense, so I'm going with that!

by skohayes on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:40:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 3)

I'd love to see someone stand up and yell "To hell with the Broncos...GO RAIDERS!"

No way. No how. No McCain.

by freedom78 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:40:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 1)

No way. I'm a true R8R H8R! I love the Broncos.

by elrod on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:07:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 2)

Chanting now?

Have some respect, people.

Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.

by mistersite on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:38:37 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

I have no respect whatsoever for overturning the results of an election, like some banana republic. I was one of those chanting "Shame, shame, shame" and "Denver."

It is extraordinary to me that US citizens are so self serving and have no democratic principles and would sit silent while voters are not only silenced but their votes are overturned behind closed doors in the "democratic party". That silence is the gutless, unethical, arrogant, and immature position in that room. All true Americans and Democrats should be protesting the disenfranchisment of voters, loudly and vociferously. Silence equals cowardice.

The short term gain for one campaign will be a long term loss. Kiss Michigan and Florida good-bye for the GE.

by 07rescue on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 04:14:07 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 1)

Jerome you should really tell people to stop this. This is terrible. Terrible. Even two Clinton supporters have broken from her in the vote

Matthew25Network.com

by cardboard 1 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:38:39 PM EST

Stop this? He provokes it! (none / 0)

Get used to it.
This site will now become a MyMain dot com.
A site that promotes hate for our nominee.

I support our nominee President Barack Obama - and the Admins can't stand me, so I can't rec or rate. This is very mean if you were to ask me.

by TheFullBerry on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:53:59 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Clinton's supporters ... (2.00 / 3)

showing their class yet again, booing members of the rules committee

by BeekerDynasty on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:39:07 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 3)

This is so freaking embarassing.

John McCain smells like mothballs.

by asherrem on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:39:34 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 1)

Nice to see some booing.

Hey...weren't Clinton supporters going crazy about Obama supporters booing at various events a while back?

I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning!

No way. No how. No McCain.

by freedom78 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:39:42 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

Do you love the smell of candidate supports making the entire party look bad on television? Cause I don't.

www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com

by LandStander on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:20:04 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

No...no I do not.

I can't imagine why in the hell the DNC didn't make this a closed door meeting. I don't know if these are always open, and it's just that this one garnered much more attention, or if they took the approach of "open = better." But I think it may have been a mistake. It was hours of propaganda presented as neutrality and then some out of order supporters making asses of themselves.

Ugh.

No way. No how. No McCain.

by freedom78 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:33:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

They could have at least had the trouble-makers leave the proceedings. I was amazed and dismayed at the tolerance of the committee members. Don't they want to preserve the public dignity of their own party??

www.thingsyoungerthanmccain.com

by LandStander on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:38:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Why open meeting? (none / 0)

I'm pretty sure it was open because that is what the by-laws require.

by Joe in Wynnewood PA on Sat May 31, 2008 at 11:42:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 4)

Difference: Obama supporters sit silently for the pro-full seat votes. Hillary supporters are the only ones who boo (and now, hiss!)

Deeply disappointing. I'm proud to be on the side that shows some sense of respect toward the other side.

John McCain: Healthcare for Kids? In America? No way

by bosdcla14 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:39:47 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (1.60 / 5)

Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver! Denver!

by zenful6219 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:40:56 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 2)

At least you're typing it here instead of making an ass of yourself on national television.

Join the Matthew 25 Network and help Democrats win the next generation of evangelicals.

by mistersite on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:41:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 2)

It has nothing to with making an ass. This is called protest. Clinton should take this to the convention. This is not right!

by zenful6219 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:43:47 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 4)

Not right?

Rules that turn out to work against you... should be criticized (AFTER the fact, AFTER supporting them publicly to start with), challenged and overturned... when it's to your personal advantage?

Not right... indeed.

by ogre on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:58:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 1)

What a crock!

It's time to restore balance and fairness to our economy,... It's time to stop giving tax cuts to corporations that ship jobs overseas... - Barack Obama

by Lefty Coaster on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:01:49 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

You sound just like Harold Ickes. He who "substituted his own judgement for voters" is now shocked - SHOCKED!

We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.

by Jess81 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:31:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

This while process has been a travesty, and the guilty, this same stupid committee, instead of admitting their guilt and trying to fix something, just kicked the can down the field.

by dembluestates on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:37:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

No - Clinton wants a procedural issue to pursue. Literally anything would do.

If the committee hadn't backed the position of the two states, that would have been her position. If they had agreed to her position, she would have added more demands.

If you think she's taking this to the convention over 4 delegates, then you probably believed her when she said "it's clear that this election in Michigan isn't going to count for anything."

We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.

by Jess81 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:41:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 7)

What a bunch of shameful children. Their chanting is scary.

Obama/Warner 2008

by MissVA on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:40:58 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

It's like they bused in the audience at Real Time with Bill Maher.

And aged it 40 years.

We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.

by Jess81 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 08:16:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 6)

jesus christ, stay classy clinton supporters

denver? HISSING?

wow.

by Monolithic on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:41:18 PM EST

Classy (2.00 / 4)

That and the circus outside.

Clinton fans, this is not your finest hour.

Finding God in a Dog

by maxomai on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:42:17 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Not at all (2.00 / 2)

Kick them out NOW!!!!!!!!!

No McCain in '08

by Renie on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:43:11 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I disagree (none / 0)

I'm glad these thugs are on national television.

Finding God in a Dog

by maxomai on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:16:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: I disagree (none / 0)

Me too. I want everyone to see what they Rules Committee has committed.

by dembluestates on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:38:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Fake outrage (2.00 / 5)

Where was your damn outrage and venom when Clinton's people, down to the last person, including Harold Ickes, stripped Florida and Michigan of their entire delegations?!?

Do you understand how utterly hypocritical your position is?

Finding God in a Dog

by maxomai on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:42:08 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Fake outrage (none / 0)

It wasn't Clitnon's people, it was the whole committee.

Of course, Obama people usually wear their Obama blinders.

by dembluestates on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 01:13:00 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I find it funny (2.00 / 8)

Clinton supporter complain they were shouted down by Obama supporters at the caucuses...it seems they have no problem shouting people down here.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:41:59 PM EST

Re: I find it funny (none / 0)

What goes around comes around.

by zenful6219 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:44:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Then maybe (2.00 / 1)

they should've done this at the caucuses instead of acting like intimidated children.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:46:43 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Then maybe (none / 0)

Better late than never

by dembluestates on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:42:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Now it doesn't help (none / 0)

it just excacerbates a divide.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:46:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

Half votes? I thought the rules were halving the number of delegates.
Have I missed something (I did take a nap earlier)?

by skohayes on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:42:36 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

amounts to the same thing.

by colebiancardi on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:54:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

No it doesn't. If they'd halved the delegates, Clinton would have netted 6 (or 9) out of Florida. For example, districts with four delegates that Clinton won 75-25 gave her three delegates to Obama's one. If they halved the number of delegates, they would have split the two, because Obama met the 15% threshold. Big difference in Hillary's favor, and that was Obama's concession to her.

McCain

by Black Anus on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:40:15 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

It's one way to deal with it. Half votes or half delegates. This way is ACTUALLY more advantageous to Hillary. Halving the delegates... would halve the number per district, and the determination of delegates would be revised. It'd create a higher barrier for getting 2 of 3... or whatever.

by ogre on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:00:37 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (1.00 / 1)

This is so tragic. The Democratic party is actually going to disenfranchise voters in Florida. And, they're doing it on national television.

by zenful6219 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:42:38 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 7)

You don't seem to be worried about the people who never voted because they were told the election wouldn't count.

You also don't seem to be worried about legitimizing an election where the candidates couldn't fully campaign.

Without drawing any conclusions, I'll say that your indignation about democracy seems to be a bit uneven.

by Brannon on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:46:05 PM EST
[ Parent ]

"Disenfranchise" (2.00 / 6)

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

by Angry White Democrat on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:47:23 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 3)

So tearful?

What about the Florida pols (some of them supers) who disenfranchised their voters by creating this farce? Who disenfranchised all the voters who did NOT vote because they WERE TOLD that the election WOULD NOT COUNT?

by ogre on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:02:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

Yeah, but those were Florida GOP.

I can't believe we're going to let the GOP exert influence over a Dem process.

This is a travesty, and all those on the Rules committee, especially the Obamas, should be ashamed.

by dembluestates on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:49:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 1)

What's your Operation Chaos ID?

We should be able to deliver bottled hot water to dehydrated babies.

by Jess81 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 08:16:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

Obamas? They're not on the rules committee.

(Idiot!)

And anyone who's watched the video of the FL legislature (GOP controlled) knows that the FL Democrats there were collaborating in screwing the process--actively.

There's nothing more ugly than intentional ignorance (other than GOP lies. Which is your explanation?)

by ogre on Mon Jun 02, 2008 at 05:28:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 1)

Mostly cheering, but a little booing of "this party needs unity"? WOW. Dig your own holes.

John McCain wants to stay in Iraq.

by ihaveseenenough on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:42:50 PM EST

Watching 50 years old boo (2.00 / 4)

Not classy and a bit disturbing.

by Regenman on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:42:55 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 1)

Stay classy, Clinton supporters.

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by mistersite on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:43:33 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 2)

Too late, that was embarassing.

by skohayes on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:45:18 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 3)

Okay, this is absolutely ridiculous.

Hillary Clinton would still lose even if they "got all their votes", so why the petty outrage?

These people are either morons or incredibly immature, or both.

by Deadalus on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:43:53 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

You have no democratic ethics. Disenfranchising voters is a crime.

by 07rescue on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 04:15:46 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 3)

Go ALICE! Smackdown!

by skohayes on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:44:05 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 3)

Haha even the Clinton supporter is admonishing the Clinton gallery.

John McCain wants to stay in Iraq.

by ihaveseenenough on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:44:11 PM EST

Clinton has created this mess (2.00 / 3)

This is the most pathetic spectacle I've seen in a long time.

No McCain in '08

by Renie on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:44:15 PM EST

A staff member (2.00 / 2)

of a New York superdelegate told me last week that after Tuesday, if Clinton is not out, the party is going to come down on her like a ton of bricks.

This is the beginning of that I think.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:45:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I hope so (none / 0)

but they haven't shown much leadership yet.

No McCain in '08

by Renie on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:14:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]

They're doing it (none / 0)

as to not drive away Clinton supporters...but it'll get to a point where you just have to put down the gauntlet.

They're being more than fair to her supporters.

The American people; they were for the war before they were against it.

by nrafter530 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:45:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton has created this mess (none / 0)

She has not. Stop with the Clinton bashing.

by grlpatriot on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:45:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton has created this mess (none / 0)

I was calling for unity weeks ago, expecting that whoever lost would bow out gracefully and I vowed to vote for whoever won. This is not graceful, this is party suicide and we are watching it live. As long as her supporters are contributing to this mess I WILL NOT leave her alone.

No McCain in '08

by Renie on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:55:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton has created this mess (2.00 / 2)

Ickes just freaking called for her to take it to the credentials committee, and her people are chanting DENVER. That right there is why I will not give her a pass.

No McCain in '08

by Renie on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:57:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton has created this mess (none / 0)

Exactly. The time for giving HRC "space" and an opportunity to leave with "dignity" is coming to an end.

Honestly, I feel bad for her supporters. It is painful when your candidate loses, especially when it is this close. And I think we should cut them some slack for emotional behavior.

But for Ickes to act like a petulant baby when the outcome of the committee's vote will have no meaningful bearing on the nomination process is irresponsible. He should stick with Wolfson's earlier argument today that just having the debate, regardless of outcome, is a victory for the Clinton campaign.

It's just the beat of time, the beat that must go on
If you've been trying for years, we already heard your song

by Fluffy Puff Marshmallow on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:34:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]

I tried to be patient (2.00 / 1)

I know how bad it feels when your candidate loses, but Rachel Maddow was right. If we let her she will continue to encourage infighting all the way through November. Her supporters scored a massive win today - they got delegates they weren't ever supposed to get. Obama conceded a big loss in Florida, and yet they protest? I just can't feel sorry for them anymore.

No McCain in '08

by Renie on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:39:13 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Clinton has created this mess (none / 0)

Clinton decided to destroy the party and attempt to elect McCain. Her own choice.

by Aris Katsaris on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:20:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 3)

I think this last 10 minutes has just shown why it won't go to Denver. Shameful.

by rfahey22 on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:44:26 PM EST

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

IF Hillary's Campaign doesn't back off from this nonsense about forcing this to Denver, my guess is that 180 of those 200 uncommitted superdelegates are going to jump on the Obama bandwagon, and then 50 of her superdelegates are going to defect to him on top of that.

The Party elders aren't going to let this nonsense carry on all summer.

by Obamaphile on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:37:56 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

On to Denver.

The Rules Committee have just embarrassed themselves and every sentient Democrat.

And as for Supers, I say let them do what they want, the way they're supposed to.

We'll go on to Denver even if they all declare for Obama.

by dembluestates on Sat May 31, 2008 at 07:45:57 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

And Hillary Clinton will become the next Joe Lieberman of the Democratic Party if she carries this charade on after next week when Obama becomes the presumptive nominee.

She will not only be messing up Democrats chances in November if she drags this out, she'll be destroying her legacy in the Party forever if she doesn't figure out how to lose with dignity pronto.

Enjoy paying that $30MM debt off yourself Hillary... nobody in the Party is gonna bail you out if you don't back down. And forget about 2012... you won't win a single primary if you screw this up for us in November.

by Obamaphile on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 12:39:18 AM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (none / 0)

Uhh, no, Joe Lieberman was Obama's mentor in the Senate, along with Daschle, remember?

by dembluestates on Sun Jun 01, 2008 at 01:16:06 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 1)

It's painful to realize your hard work for a candidate is irrelevant and they've lost. It happens to all of us in our political lives.

A small percentage of every losing campaign in every election refuse to accept this.

This time there just happens to be a forum for these people to make idiots of themselves.

It's not a Clinton supporter thing. It'd probably happen in any losing political campaign for any candidate that was given such a public forum to make a doofus out of themselves.

by KyleJRM on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:44:48 PM EST

Huffman getting made at HRC supporters (2.00 / 3)

Wow, HRC's folks are pissing Huffman off.

"Act like proper men and women" she says. Here, here.

by Regenman on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:44:55 PM EST

It's about time there was some adult supervision (2.00 / 3)

Good for Alice H.

by Hudson on Sat May 31, 2008 at 06:51:33 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Re: Live Thread IV at the RBC (2.00 / 4)

Wow. The Clinton supporter is smacking down the Clinton-supporting rowdies in the crowd.

Now that's class.

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